Thecleaver

Ok so I guess time for an update.... The monsoon did trash many lettuce seedlings but about half survived as well as most tomato, arugula and chard. Carrots sprouted well. Now have a variety of Chinese green vegetables sprouting as well as Detroit Red Beets, Chioggia Beets, Caraway, Italian Parsley, Peppermint, Rainbow Chard and few others. Scarlett Runner beans just came up and look great. Pole beans all healthy so far. Carrots are transplanted into sandy beds I prepared with this ratio: 1 pt sifted garden soil from bed 1 pt sifted compost 1 pt beach sand I planted a tomato plant amidst each small bed as a companion so we'll see how they get along. I'm not betting too big on the tomatoes as they are varieties not overly suited to Hawaii, although some are doing much better than others. I'll be transplanting the lettuce, arugula, beets, chard, chinese veg later this week. Next project is to build a permanent trellis for beans and cukes and start taking softwood herb cuttings to root. I'm also going to modify my seedling flat system so that the flats are part of the actual garden bed separated by wood dividers instead of portable ones. The advantage is that I can build a few cloches to cover the tops while sprouting, have deeper soil depth and accustom the seedlings to the soil type in the actual bed to minimize transplant shock. I'm also toying with the idea of "movable flats". The idea is to have a bottomless frame that I can position anywhere in the open garden bed and sink it about half way in. Then I can mound a seedling mix on top and plant seeds exactly where I want them and again use a cloche for protection during germination and early growth, gradually hardening them off as they grow and thinning out as needed. This way, there is no transplanting involved and the seeds gain the protection from a flat. I know I could just put the seeds right in the ground without the frame, but I think the frames will allow me to better position individual crops for maximum spacing since each crop will be "squared off". I also need to keep making compost for the seedling mix in batches by hand so it allows time between sproutings to make more for the next round. By the time I have the whole bed planted, I've added a good 2 inches of excellent topsoil! Then next time around the cycle starts over and another 2 inches eventually gets added keeping the soil sustainable. Sounds good in theory anyway...... :please please: More later.....

Alright then Duncan, you're first to start this topic......come on now Danny's waiting!

Welcome Glenn! Your lurking days are over.

Well I transplanted the first wave of seedlings into 6" flats only to have a monsoon of rain pummel them into the dirt the very next day. Serves me right for not thinking ahead and rushing. I'll have to build some protection screens for the flats or something. Luckily most survived although they aren't looking so great now.... On the plus side, I got some great sand for my carrot beds so I'm looking forward to a good crop there. Also got first shipment of heirloom seeds so I'll be starting new flats shortly. More later.....

Now now there you two....just hold on for a few more weeks and spring will have sprung. Although I could use the help! Just received first batch of heirloom seeds from you guessed it Heirloom Seed Company. Lots of great old lettuces, pole and bush beans and a couple cukes. Most of my seeds sprouted BTW....all looking healthy and tomorrow plan on transplanting into new flats before placing them in the garden. I also scored some tree trunk sections for stepping stones in the raised bed that will also act as vegetable bed "dividers" to keep it semi-organized, although I kind of like the free-form style. I'm using wine crates with the bottoms knocked out for carrot beds that will be companion planted with tomatos. I'll need to get some sand to mix into them and I think I'll sift the soil in there also to up the odds of nicely shaped carrots. Someone apparently complained about my tool box structure being too high, so now I have to take the damn roof down! I think they are just jealous...... Now I need to figure out where to have my seedling flats so they won't get destroyed be rains. Shrug........ Pole beans all looking healthy so far even though some leaves are slightly deformed. Need to build poles or trellis for them also. Never ending................

Thanks for the Old Garden tips. I'll maybe do a search on them. I'm not getting my hopes up on the old seeds but I think they will mostly sprout. Some packets I had were sealed and they looked good. I ordered a bunch of lettuce, herbs and beans from Heirloom Seeds so they should do well. Come over and put your garden in shape? Sounds delightful but then who would take care of mine? I'm jealous BTW. Onions and cold weather crops do poorly here so I don't get to have fun with a lot of things that I like to eat. On the other hand, though, we have year round growing so I guess that's a trade off. Keep you guys posted.....

March 5th: OK...tool shed complete sans the painting and 3 large seedling trays built. Seeds sown thus far, all open pollinated/heirloom varieties: Provider Pole beans, Rocdor Wax beans, Hawaiian Pole beans-sown directly in beds. Royal Chantenay carrots, Little Finger carrots, Yellow Sunshine carrots-sown in flats to be thinned later. Peron Sprayless tomato, Yellow and Red Pear tomato, Pink Brandywine, Anahu (local)- flat sown Ruby Chard, Black Seeded Simpson lettuce, Santa Fe lettuce, Crispy Frills lettuce, mesclun mix, Bibb lettuce all broadcast sown in flats to be thinned later. Also a bit of Chinese Broccoli. For the flat mix I simply screened out rough compost from a nearby pile through a plastic screen with 1/4" holes and mixed it with soil form the bed screened the same way in a ratio of 1:1. I also used a smaller mesh screen to further sift the mix a couple times to remove any obvious larger peices. It worked well so I recommend it as good method for germinating seeds. You can recycle the flat mix with more sifted compost and soil for future flats. The seeds I used were pretty old but looked to be in good shape, so I'm hoping for a decent germination rate. Back with more later.....

Thanks. I'll go there tommorow to hopefully finish the construction and tidy up. I think I'm gonna use the wine crate "innards" -you know those pieces that hold the bottles in place- and peice them together into bean poles and stakes. Also will make seedling trays from remaining scrap wood, etc. and I think a wind barrier. Still have to send away for seeds! I can get many cuttings from the area and from friends for herbs so I don't think I'll have to start from seed on those except for a few specialty herbs that I can't find here like savory and chervil. The garden is up in a cool valley so I think they will do fine. :please please: More later....

Well I finally got a book on hearth ovens and I recommend it as a read for anyone interested in naturally-fermented bread and building an oven. Its called "The Bread Builders" by Alan Scott and Daniel Wing. Has great pics of some really old stone hearth ovens including one free standing French communal oven dated to be about 700 years old. It also goes over basic oven construction and features "visits" to present time hearth oven operations from husband/wife bakeries to full scale Sourdough production of 1000's of daily loaves made 24/7 and STILL using ONLY natural fermentation. Alan Scott has built ovens all over the country and is considered a lead authority on hearth oven building. There's some info on him in the earlier link I provided. There are basically 2 types of hearth ovens: "Black and White": Black ovens are heated by starting a fire directly inside the hearth until the masonry is hot enough to bake and then cleaning out the ashes to start baking. You then have so many hours to bake all your bread, etc. before the temperature dies down, at which time you can either fire another round to replenish the heat or just stop production for the day. Usually, the fire is started the previous afternoon and is "fired" two or three times throughout the night (or day, depending on the baking schedule) to slowly bring up the heat. Once hot, (circa 600-700 degrees) the oven rests to stabalize the heat and then you wait until the temp is right for whatever you are baking. Pizza can be cooked at 650-700 degrees and hearth breads around 500. As the temp cools, you can utilize the oven for cookies, pastries, roasts and finally drying wood, herbs, etc. if it gets low enough. Ideally, you would not want the temp to go all the way back down, but fire it up again the next day while there is still some heat left to make it easier for the next firing. The oven can retain heat at 500 degrees for hours depending on the size and efficiency so much baking can be done. White ovens are different in that the fire chamber is separate, usually below, the baking chamber and the heat transfers through the masonry from the bottom. The hearth stays clean which is why it's "White". This type has more temp control because you can keep fueling the fire to raise the temp or control flues to lower the temp and you can keep the oven going longer by always keeping the fire going, so you can bake for longer periods. These types can get very elaborate with flues, steam, rotary hearth chambers controlled by hand, etc. Most early commercial bakeries used this type of system for obvious reasons.

2/21: Alright I finished the bed borders and most of the toolbox/garden "shed". I ended up using a combination of salvage lumber and wine crates so that there is a main raised bed along with some single boxes sunken into it on either end for specific herbs. Got great responses so far from other gardeners. Beds are about 6-7" high from ground level with an additional 6-7" of great loam below that. Next is how to get around in there! Also will be making seedling trays and a sprouting area. Does anyone know if sprouting and transplanting was used during middle age gardening or was direct sowing practiced more widely? Seems that direct sowing would have been easier for most, but perhaps there were savvy gardeners back then also?

Looks like Jackson kept to the Alan Lee design pretty closely. There's been many Tolkien fantasy art pictures over the years. It would be neat to compare different versions of the same structures.

Oh then this one...

I may make a small hot house for sprouting seedlings, etc. but the main garden will remain mostly open except for trellis work tbd. I'm leaning towards using the wine crates with the bottoms knocked out to form a border for the raised beds and path and use each crate for a different herb/crop etc. with the main bed used for larger crops. Then I can even adjust each box for soil type to suit the plant and keep a track on crop rotation as well. Plus the crates look rustic and I can peice them together into a pattern. I'll try to scan a design image or picture when I can. Shooting for saturday to do the layout. Keep you posted! Oh and I pinched that gardening segment off one of Galla's links! Hehe!

Excerpt from an English Husbandry Text: Chap III Of the sowing and ordering of all manner of Pot-Hearbs. When you have prepared your ground, and cast your beds in an orderly fashion, as is before spoken, you shall then take your Seeds which Seeds would by no means be above a yeere olde: and having sorted them severally, every one by its selfe, and appointed the beds which shall severally receive them: you shall in this manner sowe your Pot-hearbs, which crave not much roote, because their onely benefit is in the leafe: take your seeds and put them into a wooden Tray, then take of your Garden moulde, the finest that may be, being made almost as fine as ashes, and mixe your Seeds, and that mould very well together, then goe to the bedde where you mean to bestow them, and having newly rackt it (to stirre up the fresh mould) with your hand sprinkle and sow them all over the bed, so thicke as may be: shich done, with a fine Rake, rake the bed gently over, then taking spare fine mould, put it into a ridling Sive, and sift it over the bed better than two fingers thickness, and so let it rest: thus you shall doe severally with every seede one after another, bestowing every one upon severall bed. Of all sorts of Pot-hearbs. Of Endive and Succorie. Now for your Pot-hearbs, which are most generally in use, they be these; Endive and Succorie, which delight in moyst ground, and will endure the winter. Bleete of which there be two kindes, Red and White: this Hearbe never needeth weeding, and if he be suffered to shed his seed it will hardly ever be got out of a Garden. Of Beets. Then Beets which must be much weeded, for they love to live by themselves, and if they grow too thicke you may take them up when they are a finger long in their owne earth, and set them in another bed, and they will prosper much better. Land-Cresses. Then land Cresses, which is bothe a good Pot-Hearbe and a good Sallet-Hearbe: it loveth shadowy places, where the Sunne shineth least, and standeth in need of little dung. Parcely. Then Parcely, which of all Hearbs is of most use, it is longest in appearing above ground, and the elder seed is the quicker in growth, but not he surer, but eyther beig once come up increase naturally, and doe hardly ever decay: it cannot grow too thicke, but as you use it you must cut off the toppes with your knife, and by no meanes pull up the rootes: if it be put into a little pursse, and beaten against the ground, to bruise it a little before it be sowne, it will make it have a large crisped leafe. Of Savory. Then Savory, of which there are two kindes, the Winter Savory, and Summer, both delight in leane ground, and are quicke of growth, and long lasting. Of Time. Then Time, of which are also two kindes, the running Time, and the Garden Time: they delight in fertile ground, and from the seede are very slow of growth, therefore it is best ever to set them from the slip. The running Time doth delight in the shadow, but the Garden Time in the Sunne. French Mallowes. Then French-Mallowes, which will i?p in any ground, and are quicke of growth. Chervill. Then Chervill, which will not by any meanes grow with any other Hearbe. Of Dill. Then Dill, which may be sowne almost in any moneth of the yeere as well as March: it endureth all weathers, but loveth the warmth best. Just thought it intersting to read and and the accuracy of some of the information.

This one?